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welcome to tales from the rabbit hole

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I'm your host Mick West my guest today

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is Phil also known as the skeptic of the

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north I came across Phil on on Twitter

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he tweeted a link to me for his latest

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video and I checked it out and I thought

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it was great

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it's a video about conspiracy theories

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and I found it really fascinating bill

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is someone who used to be a conspiracy

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theorist to some degree and now he's not

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and now he's making a very good series

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of videos which I highly encourage

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people to check out there's three in

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this series so far and we're going to

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talk about that so Phil welcome to tales

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from the rabbit hole hey no you're very

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welcome thank you very much for being

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here it's I people tweet me things all

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the time as they come look at this video

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and I'm like who is this person who's

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sending me some random video but I

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looked at yours and it was actually

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really interesting and I was quite

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surprised you had so few subscribers on

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your channel yeah

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funniest started really so yeah so you

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used to be a conspiracy theorist yeah it

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was actually quite a long time ago is

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basically I run away I'm 32 now so I was

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run up at the time I was sort of 18 or

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19 I had a sort of a brief stint for

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about a year where I was in the

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conspiracy theories so yeah how did you

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you remember how you actually kind of

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got started what it's not the first

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thing that kind of piqued your interest

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well ironically obviously I'm from

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actually be tell from my accent I'm

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actually from Belfast Northern Ireland

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and I actually had a relatively a

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political upbringing so obviously from

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Northern Ireland you have and people

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here a unionists he wants there was not

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to be part of the UK and people here in

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nationalist he won't let me be part of

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United Ireland but for me I actually

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never really had a lot of my conclusions

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are things that I've actually come in

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collisions I've actually personally come

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through you know myself and ironically

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how I actually got into conspiracy

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theories was through the comedy of Bill

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Hicks

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cuz I was obviously you've probably

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watched the clip of my video Bill Hicks

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aids

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he talked about society ie mocked the

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sort of superficial nature of society

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and how really a combination of

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religious fundamentalism as well as the

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consumer society we live in but he

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actually introduced me to what I feel

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like to

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very separate ways of thinking about

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society because the way he defined his

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comedy was noam chomsky but with dick

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jokes much of you that's that's right so

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through him I actually got introduced to

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like no he was like on this side he got

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me into noam chomsky and I actually read

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the very first documentary ever watched

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was manufacturing consent have you heard

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about that documentary I've not seen it

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there the general premise is obviously

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that's because the fact that

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corporations tend to own a lot of the

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media basically the ruling class in the

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media and because of that there's a very

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narrow spectrum of acceptable acceptable

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opinion that they don't want you to have

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on the media so I kind of got into that

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side of it nearly three what I would

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what I would personally consider real

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conspiracism or you know general

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critiques of society and so I got into

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like Naomi Klein and people like John

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Pilger but obviously because Bill Hicks

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is obviously conspiracy theorist he they

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got me into the JFK conspiracy which is

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goodbye you show my video and as well as

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that in one of his lesser-known videos

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he actually seems to lend credence to

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the Waco Siege conspiracy are you are

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you familiar with them and he also lent

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he also lent credibility to you know an

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elite that's kind of running the planet

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and so from him I got into the zeitgeist

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film series as well as you know Alex

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Jones and a couple of lesser-known

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titles and esoteric agenda before or

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anything like that yeah but again

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there's not something I've looked into

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detail well the general premise of the

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video is essentially it tracks the

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entire history of the Illuminati and it

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gives what I wouldn't know I can sit at

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the time it didn't particularly

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understand to realize this but it

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actually gives more of a right-wing

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perspective if there's a lot of this

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stuff about the Illuminati and private

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bankers and things of that nature at the

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time I didn't really understand fill

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context about okay I would I would watch

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say like a Noam Chomsky video one day

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and then a David Icke video the next day

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and I didn't really feel you understand

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that they are actually basically saying

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two completely different things like a

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lot of the TV like Alex Jones stuff

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seems to be more and more towards

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anti-semitic conspiracy theories and

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they link back to take it you've heard

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of the protocols of Zion hatred I didn't

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understand to fill context at the time

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and that's essentially that's how

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and the conspiracy theories was merely

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three looking at how they explain power

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relations and things of idea chair so

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and then obviously gone to JFK on the

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911 conspiracy side for the dimension so

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this was all back when you were 18 18

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years old yeah what were you doing in

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your life at that time were you at

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college or at it's working I actually

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worked in a recording studio for a while

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ironically when I got into conspiracy

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theories it made me want to go to

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university become a better critical

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thinker and ironically through going to

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university actually studied I studied

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sociology anthropology and philosophy

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and all of those have different aspects

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of for a start you you're right assays

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and you learn how to be a better

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critical thinker and you learn how to

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cite sources and make a balanced

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argument but obviously all three of

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those have different perspectives of how

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to come to rational conclusions so in

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philosophy

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you obviously study things such as

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epistemology you know what what is

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knowledge and how do you know what

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knowledge is

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whereas with things account apology you

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learn about what I often see refer to

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you in one of my videos is tribal

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epistemology and hi people if you're in

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a tribe you know you have this oh you

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have this kind of internally consistent

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logic that makes sense to you if you're

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in your tribe but if it's your right

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side of the tribe it doesn't make much

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sense of if that makes sense

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yeah it's like the different different

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cultures have different perceptions of

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things different groups that people have

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different different ways of looking at

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it it was something I was talking about

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in I think that what gets before last

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the the guy on there Tom yeah described

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it as watching two different movies are

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the same people you see the same thing

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but the interpreted through through a

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different lens yeah so you were you're

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18 and you went to university and so

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like when you arrived at University will

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you essentially a conspiracy theorist at

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that point like leaving that there was

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that JFK was killed by the CIA and so

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this was like what's like so yeah 32 now

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and that was so it was like 14 years ago

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he was doing math in my head now so

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that's after 9/11 yeah yeah so did you

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what were your opinions about 9/11 at

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the time you

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so I would have probably bought into the

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standard theories about 911 regarding

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controlled demolitions and the various

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various different things about it the

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fact that you know Larry Silverstein was

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benefitting from the insurance and

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things of that nature

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and I also couldn't really Philly

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understand why you know NORAD wouldn't

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have intervened whenever plans were sort

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of like to crash into the tars and so

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yeah I wouldn't mean to pretty much a

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like I say in my video I was about 85%

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convinced the 9/11 conspiracy theory at

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the time and obviously as well as that I

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would have watched Oliver Stone's film

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on JFK and so they would have been

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pretty much the main conspiracies that

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would have bought into I didn't I never

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really got too much in the lead

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chemtrails or anything of that nature I

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would have maybe lent credibility of the

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New World Order

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before I fully understood the context of

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it and it was only when I obviously

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being quite secular minded I sort of

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find I eventually that a lot of the New

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World Order stuff tends to be connected

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to like rigid religious fundamentalism

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and how you know the Satan's gonna take

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over the world and things of that nature

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I'm not sure are you worried about her

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yeah no that's the only one when one

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group of people like that they think

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that they were living in the end times

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yeah there's always people who think

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they're living in the end times

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yeah well Robertson he actually one of

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the books on the New World Order and

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essentially the general takeaway is that

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you know the godless atheists are gonna

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take over society and etc etc you know

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yeah but it's also kind of positive like

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the prophecy at the end times that

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you're gonna get this the Antichrist

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coming in and the mark of the beast but

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everybody and and it's gonna be great

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because everybody's gonna go to heaven

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after that so anyway they want it to

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happen which is a little bit strange but

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certainly going back to like you you

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went to university and you arrived there

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a conspiracy theorists believing that

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you know yeah JFK was assassinated by

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the CIA or whoever and that 9/11 was an

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inside job 85% sure and you're gonna

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meet all these new people at university

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now did did you meet like-minded people

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or did you kind of start butting heads

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against people

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and ironically whenever I went into my

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sociology class literally everyone in

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the class because it was actually what

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it was about the University but prior to

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going to university I actually did like

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a humanities course where which is where

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I studied sociology so it was a very

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small class of people and this is kind

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of the ironic thing about everyone in

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the class had like very different

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opinions I look at the time I was

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obviously quite out the authoritarian

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like I would have actually defined

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myself at the time believe it not as an

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anarchist which I'm not so much anymore

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but everyone remind me he had people who

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were very like pro royal family which I

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was obviously against at the time people

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who were again it was actually a girl in

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my class who was a creationist or

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obviously me as an atheist I wouldn't

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have bought into that area so ironically

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we had a lot of the BS or in the

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classroom and I did get introduced to

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perspectives that I wouldn't have

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normally got within my peer group at the

275
00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:49,210
time so I did I did actually find that

276
00:09:53,580 --> 00:09:51,910
very beneficial I was probably went a

277
00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:53,590
long way to change in my opinions on

278
00:09:59,160 --> 00:09:56,530
various topics actually so how long

279
00:10:02,310 --> 00:09:59,170
would you say you were a conspiracy

280
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:02,320
theorist before you could just declare

281
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:05,170
yourself completely out of it I would

282
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:09,010
say 78 months at max and then after that

283
00:10:13,490 --> 00:10:11,530
I started to be covered at the client as

284
00:10:15,810 --> 00:10:13,500
I started to read more information I

285
00:10:17,610 --> 00:10:15,820
started to read more the skeptic side of

286
00:10:19,020 --> 00:10:17,620
the arguments and so yeah I would have

287
00:10:21,090 --> 00:10:19,030
been probably about a year I'd say yeah

288
00:10:22,590 --> 00:10:21,100
do you remember any one particular life

289
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:22,600
fact that you discovered that really

290
00:10:25,890 --> 00:10:24,370
made you change your mind like you

291
00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:25,900
thought oh that's that's that's not

292
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:28,720
right so you know maybe other stuff one

293
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:30,730
of the things actually I actually

294
00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:32,650
watched the BBC conspiracy files

295
00:10:35,820 --> 00:10:34,390
documentary mark do you remember that

296
00:10:38,610 --> 00:10:35,830
back in the day oh no idea

297
00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:38,620
the BBC conspiracy files documentary one

298
00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:40,180
of the people who was being interviewed

299
00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:41,710
at the time was a guy who was obviously

300
00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:43,390
Richard Gere he was one of the

301
00:10:50,580 --> 00:10:46,960
architects for 9/11 truth and one of the

302
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:50,590
questions that I really sort of troubled

303
00:10:55,380 --> 00:10:52,570
me throughout this whole period was you

304
00:10:57,060 --> 00:10:55,390
know hi why is it that they could rig

305
00:10:59,520 --> 00:10:57,070
all three buildings without anybody

306
00:11:00,780 --> 00:10:59,530
noticing I was like that just seems it

307
00:11:01,290 --> 00:11:00,790
was one of those things was in my head

308
00:11:03,690 --> 00:11:01,300
at the time

309
00:11:05,070 --> 00:11:03,700
but obviously being convinced by the

310
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:05,080
controlled demolition that didn't really

311
00:11:08,940 --> 00:11:07,330
think too much about it and then one of

312
00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:08,950
the interviews the interviewer actually

313
00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:11,020
asked Richard Gere's you know so what

314
00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:12,910
when do you think the buildings were

315
00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:15,160
rigged with these explosives and I was

316
00:11:17,340 --> 00:11:16,150
kind of hoping he was gonna give a

317
00:11:20,460 --> 00:11:17,350
really good argument but he actually

318
00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:20,470
said something like maybe they were

319
00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:22,300
raped when they were the buildings were

320
00:11:27,690 --> 00:11:26,110
built in the seventies so that was one

321
00:11:30,390 --> 00:11:27,700
of the first times I started to realize

322
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:30,400
that you have to office it you have to

323
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:32,560
actually make massive leaps in logic for

324
00:11:36,510 --> 00:11:33,970
any of this to make sense and obviously

325
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:36,520
at about that time I then started to

326
00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:40,450
realize or I learned about the concept

327
00:11:43,770 --> 00:11:42,430
of Occam's razor I you know obviously if

328
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:43,780
you're met with two competing theories

329
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:44,890
it's always better than particularly

330
00:11:48,210 --> 00:11:46,930
with a simpler explanation so whenever I

331
00:11:50,250 --> 00:11:48,220
heard about that I started to really

332
00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:50,260
think about things like the Pentagon for

333
00:11:54,270 --> 00:11:52,750
example like how a lot of these people

334
00:11:56,100 --> 00:11:54,280
would say like obviously a missile hit

335
00:11:59,100 --> 00:11:56,110
that hit the Pentagon but in order for

336
00:12:00,690 --> 00:11:59,110
that to make sense everybody who all the

337
00:12:01,980 --> 00:12:00,700
eyewitnesses would all have to be in a

338
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:01,990
knot they would all it all have to be

339
00:12:05,820 --> 00:12:04,000
the actors and all the pelea parts are

340
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:05,830
actually scattered over the grass they

341
00:12:09,150 --> 00:12:07,330
would have had to be planted there and

342
00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:09,160
every everybody who was engage and they

343
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:10,840
clean up they'd all have to be in on the

344
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:13,090
conspiracy also it just didn't really

345
00:12:16,140 --> 00:12:14,410
make any sense like if you were the

346
00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:16,150
government why would you go about this

347
00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:17,830
and the most convoluted way possible and

348
00:12:22,410 --> 00:12:19,750
so it just didn't really make any sense

349
00:12:24,390 --> 00:12:22,420
to me that missile would hit the

350
00:12:25,770 --> 00:12:24,400
Pentagon when all the evidence seemed to

351
00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:25,780
point to the fact it was just a

352
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:28,740
plaintiff yeah that type of thing it's

353
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:30,970
people you know they say they're just

354
00:12:36,450 --> 00:12:34,330
asking questions which is give me a fair

355
00:12:38,670 --> 00:12:36,460
enough but they're also kind of ignoring

356
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:38,680
all these problems and these questions

357
00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:40,090
raised like Shirley could say like how

358
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:41,320
could the buildings have collapsed so

359
00:12:45,330 --> 00:12:44,050
fast but see then they don't ask the the

360
00:12:47,580 --> 00:12:45,340
other question is how could it been

361
00:12:48,930 --> 00:12:47,590
rigged with explosives and essentially

362
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:48,940
it's in a way I think it's almost like

363
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:51,130
an appealed to magic you know the some

364
00:12:56,010 --> 00:12:53,200
they have some question and there must

365
00:12:59,280 --> 00:12:56,020
be something suspicious going on so

366
00:13:01,290 --> 00:12:59,290
you're you still at college and you you

367
00:13:04,140 --> 00:13:01,300
can have stopped being a conspiracy

368
00:13:06,690 --> 00:13:04,150
theorist d-did you continue to be

369
00:13:08,190 --> 00:13:06,700
interested in the subjects though yeah

370
00:13:10,410 --> 00:13:08,200
well obviously like I said I have a

371
00:13:12,780 --> 00:13:10,420
YouTube channel now so I merely got

372
00:13:13,180 --> 00:13:12,790
interested in from there I started to

373
00:13:15,310 --> 00:13:13,190
look

374
00:13:18,850 --> 00:13:15,320
like skepticism regarding climate change

375
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:18,860
and like one of my favorite youtubers is

376
00:13:24,820 --> 00:13:21,920
a pothole or 54 you aware of you know

377
00:13:26,110 --> 00:13:24,830
pothole or 54 mm no all right he's a

378
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:26,120
massive you should actually really check

379
00:13:29,530 --> 00:13:27,920
out his stuff but he was like the guy

380
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:29,540
who really convinced me that climate

381
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:31,730
change was definitely 100% happening

382
00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:34,490
with heed cuz I mean well I started

383
00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:37,910
watching Penn & Teller remember that she

384
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:39,110
would Penn & Teller that was

385
00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:40,310
all yes thank you

386
00:13:46,210 --> 00:13:44,240
so they good show but they did they did

387
00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:46,220
a global warming conspiracy because

388
00:13:48,970 --> 00:13:47,360
we've caught obviously because Penn &

389
00:13:50,010 --> 00:13:48,980
Teller they're very obviously

390
00:13:52,780 --> 00:13:50,020
libertarians

391
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:52,790
so obviously they did that show become

392
00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:54,410
controllable and things like that but

393
00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:55,910
they did a very sort of anti-global

394
00:14:00,400 --> 00:13:57,850
warming conspiracy show as well and

395
00:14:02,140 --> 00:14:00,410
popular 54 just rips out apart

396
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:02,150
essentially so he was he was one of the

397
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:03,290
guys who really got me inside that

398
00:14:06,670 --> 00:14:04,610
global warming was definitely happening

399
00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:06,680
and just a whole bunch of other stuff

400
00:14:10,450 --> 00:14:09,350
like flat earth and conspiracies in

401
00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:10,460
general really it's not science

402
00:14:14,980 --> 00:14:12,350
denialism yeah well you were a college

403
00:14:17,830 --> 00:14:14,990
though like you know you in 1920 we you

404
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:17,840
we were into skepticism that it become

405
00:14:23,140 --> 00:14:20,570
like a new interest at the time yeah

406
00:14:25,420 --> 00:14:23,150
obviously philosophy so one of the key

407
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:25,430
things are key concepts and philosophy

408
00:14:29,650 --> 00:14:27,530
is epistemology look harder you knew

409
00:14:32,290 --> 00:14:29,660
what you knew and around about that time

410
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:32,300
actually read a book called let's call

411
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:34,250
the manual for creating any atheist I

412
00:14:38,290 --> 00:14:35,810
think it's by Peter Bogosian that'd be

413
00:14:40,450 --> 00:14:38,300
her love book oh yeah yeah one of his

414
00:14:42,370 --> 00:14:40,460
one of the key concepts obviously he

415
00:14:45,580 --> 00:14:42,380
puts four he puts forward in the book is

416
00:14:47,890 --> 00:14:45,590
this idea that and obviously something

417
00:14:49,420 --> 00:14:47,900
which I've tried to talk about on my

418
00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:49,430
video that I've just on the subject is

419
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:51,020
it's very difficult to really change

420
00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:52,880
people's opinions if you just try to

421
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:54,710
debunk them because you're under the

422
00:14:58,630 --> 00:14:56,330
assumption that they have the same

423
00:15:00,610 --> 00:14:58,640
epistemology that you do and trying to

424
00:15:03,550 --> 00:15:00,620
arrive at you know I arrived at various

425
00:15:05,140 --> 00:15:03,560
conclusions and so that kind of got me

426
00:15:06,670 --> 00:15:05,150
out of the idea that it's not really so

427
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,680
much the evidence it's really more about

428
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:08,320
the epistemology and trying to challenge

429
00:15:12,940 --> 00:15:11,510
you know how high it is you actually

430
00:15:15,190 --> 00:15:12,950
arrive at it's knowledge in the first

431
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:15,200
place but obviously in my video I

432
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:17,120
discussed the fact that a big reason why

433
00:15:21,130 --> 00:15:19,250
I changed my opinion on 9/11 was I

434
00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:21,140
noticed various similarities between me

435
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:23,150
and the the creationist girl that was in

436
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:25,050
my class because she would all

437
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:27,170
bring about all these conspiracies about

438
00:15:31,070 --> 00:15:29,310
highly you know the EF theists

439
00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:31,080
scientists are trying to suppress the

440
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:33,750
truth about creationism and she also

441
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:36,480
obviously say the fact that there are

442
00:15:41,449 --> 00:15:39,450
various scientists who dispute evolution

443
00:15:42,110 --> 00:15:41,459
and they've published papers and things

444
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,120
of that nature

445
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:44,160
I find it difficult to reconcile the

446
00:15:48,019 --> 00:15:46,170
fact that I could see that she was very

447
00:15:49,970 --> 00:15:48,029
clearly giving very similar arguments to

448
00:15:51,889 --> 00:15:49,980
what I was giving and from that I

449
00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:51,899
managed to sort of they think oh yes

450
00:15:56,509 --> 00:15:53,550
well if she's if she's obviously saying

451
00:15:58,100 --> 00:15:56,519
that then I'm I need to rethink my

452
00:15:59,810 --> 00:15:58,110
opinions on this topic cuz I'm pretty

453
00:16:01,850 --> 00:15:59,820
much doing the same thing if that makes

454
00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:01,860
sense yeah totally and it's very

455
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:03,660
interesting the similarity to Drake and

456
00:16:08,509 --> 00:16:05,850
it reminds me of reading a book on on

457
00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:08,519
Colts so try to like a branch out in two

458
00:16:12,410 --> 00:16:09,240
different things

459
00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:12,420
it's by hasan i think his name is i

460
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:14,790
can't remember the full title but it's a

461
00:16:19,190 --> 00:16:17,850
pretty famous book on on cults and this

462
00:16:21,889 --> 00:16:19,200
guy used to be a Moony

463
00:16:23,540 --> 00:16:21,899
member of the Moon cult and one of the

464
00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:23,550
things he said that kind of helped

465
00:16:30,170 --> 00:16:27,180
change his mind was learning about the

466
00:16:32,750 --> 00:16:30,180
brainwashing techniques of the Chinese I

467
00:16:34,220 --> 00:16:32,760
think during may be during like the I

468
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:34,230
can't read the Cultural Revolution or

469
00:16:37,850 --> 00:16:35,910
sometime like that but basically they're

470
00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:37,860
that Chinese had this kind of manual for

471
00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:42,060
brainwashing and it was explained to him

472
00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:43,230
like what these things were that the

473
00:16:46,370 --> 00:16:44,700
Chinese were doing and he recognized

474
00:16:50,090 --> 00:16:46,380
these things as being the same things

475
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:50,100
yes what the the Moon cult was doing the

476
00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:52,649
Moon is and this really can I gave him

477
00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:54,060
pause like you know if the Chinese are

478
00:16:57,949 --> 00:16:56,310
just acting in the exact same way as the

479
00:16:59,360 --> 00:16:57,959
Moon is then I and I don't trust the

480
00:17:02,000 --> 00:16:59,370
Chinese because they're communists then

481
00:17:05,210 --> 00:17:02,010
you know why am i trusting the moon is

482
00:17:07,010 --> 00:17:05,220
it's actually another youtuber that I

483
00:17:08,569 --> 00:17:07,020
would recommend if you ever heard of a

484
00:17:10,990 --> 00:17:08,579
youtuber called genetically modified

485
00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:11,000
skeptic he is actually a former

486
00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:13,230
religious fundamentalist you know he was

487
00:17:17,299 --> 00:17:14,910
full on you know the the earth was

488
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,309
created in six days and the universe is

489
00:17:21,260 --> 00:17:19,199
six thousand years old and ironically he

490
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:21,270
he actually made a video about how he

491
00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:23,490
changed his opinion I hope what it was

492
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:26,550
he he had a friend in college he was

493
00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:30,480
really into essential oils and he

494
00:17:34,430 --> 00:17:32,270
started the research did you know the

495
00:17:36,260 --> 00:17:34,440
science behind essential oils I need

496
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:36,270
four hundred but a lot of this stuff was

497
00:17:40,130 --> 00:17:38,310
incredible and I actually asked him you

498
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:40,140
why is it you think this works and he

499
00:17:44,270 --> 00:17:41,760
said well because I I have seen it work

500
00:17:45,470 --> 00:17:44,280
and that again made him pause for

501
00:17:47,540 --> 00:17:45,480
reflection about you know the fact

502
00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:47,550
things like miracles you know I can see

503
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:50,220
it works God you know God speaks to me

504
00:17:54,380 --> 00:17:52,110
and I can see that he works for me and

505
00:17:55,730 --> 00:17:54,390
so about me of him sort of paused to see

506
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:55,740
that again he's doing the exact same

507
00:17:59,870 --> 00:17:57,450
thing but that essentially like I was

508
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:59,880
doing as well so so it's very I would

509
00:18:02,570 --> 00:18:01,200
say it's very similar to the way that I

510
00:18:04,340 --> 00:18:02,580
changed my opinion on conspiracy

511
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:04,350
theories was realizing that there's a

512
00:18:08,060 --> 00:18:06,210
very similar epistemology that's going

513
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:08,070
on essentially yeah yeah that whole

514
00:18:12,260 --> 00:18:10,770
thing epistemology is you know it's kind

515
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:12,270
of the hot new thing right now

516
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:14,490
especially with the the street

517
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:15,450
epistemology

518
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:19,290
yeah channel there which is based on a

519
00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:23,610
manual for creating atheists and and

520
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:25,320
Street epistemology is basically going

521
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:26,690
out to people in the street and

522
00:18:30,530 --> 00:18:28,200
essentially engaging them in

523
00:18:31,940 --> 00:18:30,540
conversation and asking them you know

524
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:31,950
why they believe what they believe you

525
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,690
know talking about something some belief

526
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:36,000
that they hold and then questioning why

527
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:38,970
they believe what they believe is this

528
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:41,330
something you've ever tried out yourself

529
00:18:45,220 --> 00:18:43,710
I'm thinking I should probably try to

530
00:18:48,140 --> 00:18:45,230
implement it like it was actually yeah

531
00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:48,150
is it I've heard of a guy called James O

532
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:53,460
Brien there's probably no no no I have

533
00:18:59,330 --> 00:18:56,160
not James O'Brien is actually an English

534
00:19:02,030 --> 00:18:59,340
he's on a radio show called LBC and his

535
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:02,040
sort of claim to fame is he brings

536
00:19:06,380 --> 00:19:04,530
people on who tend to regurgitate very

537
00:19:09,020 --> 00:19:06,390
very kind of extremist few points that

538
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:09,030
are very typical within British society

539
00:19:13,370 --> 00:19:11,010
you know the things like you know in

540
00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:13,380
immigrants are taking over as etc and

541
00:19:16,910 --> 00:19:15,240
one of the things he actually does

542
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:16,920
whenever he's doing his interviews he

543
00:19:21,140 --> 00:19:18,690
brings these people onto the show and

544
00:19:23,020 --> 00:19:21,150
whenever there's fighting these kind of

545
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:23,030
this kind of rhetoric he starts a

546
00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:26,820
possible why is it you think that's and

547
00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:28,350
how have you come to the conclusion I

548
00:19:31,460 --> 00:19:29,790
mean you're actually asking questions

549
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:31,470
about nature and what are the things

550
00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:33,330
that eventually ends up happening is he

551
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:34,980
whenever he starts to ask these

552
00:19:38,090 --> 00:19:36,690
questions you actually find a lot of

553
00:19:40,790 --> 00:19:38,100
people here repeating these phrases

554
00:19:43,220 --> 00:19:40,800
don't can't actually articulate why they

555
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:43,230
think this other than they've just read

556
00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:44,970
it somewhere and they've just come to

557
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:46,560
that conclusion be it on that basis I'm

558
00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:48,690
having really thought of whites and the

559
00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:49,630
other sort of alternate

560
00:19:52,530 --> 00:19:50,950
way of thinking about the information

561
00:19:54,540 --> 00:19:52,540
they're literally just repeating it

562
00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:54,550
because my tribe thinks this therefore

563
00:20:00,210 --> 00:19:58,690
it must be true so I think that seems to

564
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:00,220
be a really effective way of getting

565
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:02,890
people to reflect on you know why is it

566
00:20:06,660 --> 00:20:05,050
that I actually think this I mean ya

567
00:20:09,090 --> 00:20:06,670
know I read Peter book house Ian's

568
00:20:11,970 --> 00:20:09,100
latest book how to have impossible

569
00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:11,980
conversations and one of the things that

570
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:13,240
he says which he probably says in his

571
00:20:19,410 --> 00:20:16,960
other book as well is avoid fact which I

572
00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:19,420
was kind of funny you know in other ways

573
00:20:24,380 --> 00:20:21,310
I've taken aback by it because you know

574
00:20:27,870 --> 00:20:24,390
I'm a skeptic online debunker who I

575
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:27,880
analyzes YouTube videos and finds out

576
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:29,200
what's wrong with them and then I

577
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:30,250
explain things to people

578
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:31,690
alright look things up and I explain

579
00:20:35,250 --> 00:20:32,890
them to people so I'm kind of a

580
00:20:38,060 --> 00:20:35,260
fact-based evanka and it was very

581
00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:38,070
interesting that he's advocating not

582
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:40,390
focusing so much on facts I'm focusing

583
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:42,610
more on the epistemology side I mean

584
00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:43,930
almost almost exclusively on

585
00:20:47,940 --> 00:20:46,180
epistemology like asking people why you

586
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:47,950
believe what you believe

587
00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:50,710
I was fascinating yeah I'm not sure if

588
00:20:55,410 --> 00:20:51,700
you've watched any of my other videos

589
00:20:57,570 --> 00:20:55,420
but Accord is from a book called culture

590
00:20:59,610 --> 00:20:57,580
of conspiracy by Michael Parker maybe

591
00:21:02,100 --> 00:20:59,620
you read that book yeah I have it on my

592
00:21:03,690 --> 00:21:02,110
bookshelf over there okay okay well

593
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:03,700
obviously the quote that I uses it's

594
00:21:07,950 --> 00:21:05,970
very difficult to really add

595
00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:07,960
conspiracies in many respects or

596
00:21:12,450 --> 00:21:10,120
unfalsifiable because any attempt at

597
00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:12,460
falsification is just sort of dismissed

598
00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:14,260
as the mainstream media or the official

599
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:18,040
narrative essentially and so I could

600
00:21:20,550 --> 00:21:19,090
sort of respect what he's saying you

601
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:20,560
know because it doesn't again it comes

602
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,510
back to the main point of my video

603
00:21:26,970 --> 00:21:24,400
series is it's Hardy a reason with

604
00:21:28,650 --> 00:21:26,980
people who aren't really interested in

605
00:21:31,020 --> 00:21:28,660
Evans evidence or facts you know how do

606
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:31,030
you get past thoughts yeah yeah it's

607
00:21:33,570 --> 00:21:32,530
that no matter what the facts are it's

608
00:21:35,970 --> 00:21:33,580
going to bounce off yeah you have to

609
00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:35,980
kind of turn the conversation around in

610
00:21:40,770 --> 00:21:38,800
a way and it talked about them and their

611
00:21:42,510 --> 00:21:40,780
actual beliefs rather than talking about

612
00:21:46,890 --> 00:21:42,520
things that they don't believe let's go

613
00:21:48,810 --> 00:21:46,900
check book I have okay I do have culture

614
00:21:50,820 --> 00:21:48,820
of conspiracy oh yeah they have an

615
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:50,830
empire of conspiracy and I have

616
00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:53,410
conspiracy culture I've got a bunch of

617
00:21:58,650 --> 00:21:55,240
other books over there on conspiracy

618
00:22:01,020 --> 00:21:58,660
theories it's quite amazing how how how

619
00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:01,030
how much literature there actually is on

620
00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:03,070
computers if there is I think

621
00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:04,600
I think a lot of it tends to be kind of

622
00:22:11,340 --> 00:22:09,190
either in the the mocking mode or kind

623
00:22:13,770 --> 00:22:11,350
of in a way almost like literary

624
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,780
criticism type stuff some of this stuff

625
00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:15,760
is AB it's kind of like like deep it's

626
00:22:19,140 --> 00:22:17,470
like what is the meaning of conspiracy

627
00:22:22,490 --> 00:22:19,150
theories in modern society as a

628
00:22:24,450 --> 00:22:22,500
discourse and narrative things like that

629
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:24,460
scared of the universe it's quite good

630
00:22:28,550 --> 00:22:26,650
as well I do I think that's on my shelf

631
00:22:32,910 --> 00:22:28,560
over there I have a signed copy that I

632
00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:32,920
that I won at a skeptical conference so

633
00:22:35,370 --> 00:22:33,480
yes

634
00:22:36,930 --> 00:22:35,380
skeptic guys the universe is a great

635
00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:36,940
book cause it's just like a whole bunch

636
00:22:41,340 --> 00:22:39,520
of kind of fairly nuggets sized bits of

637
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:41,350
information about various skeptical

638
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:43,530
topics but also about skeptical thinking

639
00:22:50,030 --> 00:22:46,330
and stuff like that well that's one of

640
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:50,040
the things actually on my next video

641
00:22:54,750 --> 00:22:52,330
that skeptics guide of the universe

642
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:54,760
attentions is the idea of hyperactive

643
00:22:57,570 --> 00:22:56,710
agency detection because one of the

644
00:22:59,280 --> 00:22:57,580
things that I really think about

645
00:23:02,220 --> 00:22:59,290
conspiracy theories is the fact that

646
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:02,230
human beings generally speaking they

647
00:23:08,340 --> 00:23:05,530
have a hard time understanding the

648
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:08,350
statistically anomalous events so for

649
00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:11,410
example if I talked about say somebody I

650
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:13,180
haven't seen in years if my friend Adam

651
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:15,370
for example and I walked on the streets

652
00:23:20,550 --> 00:23:18,130
and I bumped into him for some people an

653
00:23:22,350 --> 00:23:20,560
event like that well for someone like me

654
00:23:24,180 --> 00:23:22,360
obviously I would just break that off as

655
00:23:26,190 --> 00:23:24,190
an odd coincidence but for some other

656
00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:26,200
people people would think oh the fact

657
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:28,360
that I've manifested that person in my

658
00:23:34,110 --> 00:23:31,450
mind means that the universe has brought

659
00:23:35,460 --> 00:23:34,120
into me and I think that that would be

660
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:35,470
more that's my explanation for

661
00:23:38,550 --> 00:23:37,210
conspiracy theories is the fact that I

662
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:38,560
mean fact that there's so many different

663
00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:40,450
conspiracies about every single event

664
00:23:45,870 --> 00:23:43,300
whether it be the JFK assassination or

665
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:45,880
Princess Diana's death or 9/11 moon

666
00:23:51,660 --> 00:23:48,850
landing etc etc I feel it's just the

667
00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:51,670
human mind can't really comprehend the

668
00:23:55,890 --> 00:23:54,400
an event of that magnitude could have

669
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:55,900
just been carried by some random person

670
00:24:00,090 --> 00:23:58,720
so there has to be a deeper meaning to

671
00:24:02,490 --> 00:24:00,100
it and now okay that's actually one of

672
00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:02,500
the topics of my next video yeah yeah I

673
00:24:07,650 --> 00:24:04,150
think people want some kind of

674
00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:07,660
explanation into things because yes I

675
00:24:13,170 --> 00:24:11,230
think anyways a primal urge that you

676
00:24:15,780 --> 00:24:13,180
want to have you know what why is this

677
00:24:18,190 --> 00:24:15,790
thing happened because people's worlds

678
00:24:19,660 --> 00:24:18,200
when when people involved were a lot

679
00:24:21,370 --> 00:24:19,670
smaller he would just had to deal with

680
00:24:23,170 --> 00:24:21,380
people in the tribe around you and you

681
00:24:24,790 --> 00:24:23,180
think when things happen there is

682
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:24,800
usually because somebody did something

683
00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:26,450
or because some animal did something or

684
00:24:30,610 --> 00:24:29,240
some tree nearby fell on something so

685
00:24:33,070 --> 00:24:30,620
when humans have evolved into this

686
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:33,080
broader society you've got these kind of

687
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:37,130
like primitive ape-like instincts of the

688
00:24:41,290 --> 00:24:38,480
small group that are being applied to

689
00:24:43,470 --> 00:24:41,300
this really very wide group of millions

690
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:43,480
of people and millions of events and

691
00:24:48,850 --> 00:24:46,910
it's just not gonna work yeah well it

692
00:24:51,250 --> 00:24:48,860
was that was Michael Shermer actually

693
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:51,260
his he actually gives like an eyewash a

694
00:24:54,460 --> 00:24:52,640
talk where you give an evolutionary

695
00:24:56,770 --> 00:24:54,470
explanation and what it comes from

696
00:24:58,900 --> 00:24:56,780
apparently well according to him is that

697
00:25:01,090 --> 00:24:58,910
if you were say living in back in the

698
00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:01,100
tribal days and you heard I brought a

699
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:02,240
rustling in the bush

700
00:25:06,190 --> 00:25:04,010
you could either conclude that it's the

701
00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:06,200
wind bullying or you can cloody that

702
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,260
it's a tiger coming to eat you and so

703
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:11,600
because of that human beings that maybe

704
00:25:15,940 --> 00:25:14,270
evolved to assume a tiger because if it

705
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:15,950
was just the winds then that's fine but

706
00:25:20,460 --> 00:25:17,600
if it's a tiger then you're gonna get

707
00:25:24,010 --> 00:25:20,470
eaten essentially and so we tend to

708
00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:24,020
superimpose intentionality on what kind

709
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:26,750
of random events yeah because it's no

710
00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:28,850
it's an evolutionary appendages to do so

711
00:25:36,670 --> 00:25:34,280
yeah yeah yeah say you took her in your

712
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:36,680
videos about the idea of a grand

713
00:25:40,150 --> 00:25:38,110
conspiracy

714
00:25:42,460 --> 00:25:40,160
what would you mean by a grand

715
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:42,470
conspiracy again it comes back to the

716
00:25:46,450 --> 00:25:44,450
politics of where Brown conspiracism

717
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:46,460
comes from and a lot of this tends to be

718
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:49,010
again rooted in Jewish conspiracies and

719
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:51,170
how the Jews are manipulating world

720
00:25:57,220 --> 00:25:53,510
events to get a global world order and

721
00:25:59,050 --> 00:25:57,230
so I would say that grand conspiracy as

722
00:26:01,870 --> 00:25:59,060
an explanation of society that would be

723
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:01,880
condoned that root as opposed to what

724
00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:03,110
again what I would call the Noam

725
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:05,030
Chomsky's or the Naomi Klein's of the

726
00:26:09,550 --> 00:26:07,370
world who tend to give more of a

727
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:09,560
critique on the economics rather than

728
00:26:16,090 --> 00:26:11,650
just an individual group of people and

729
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:16,100
if that makes sense yeah Chomsky I guess

730
00:26:18,670 --> 00:26:17,360
is saying that you know there's bad

731
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:18,680
things happen because they're just

732
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,440
emergent properties of the chaotic world

733
00:26:25,450 --> 00:26:23,840
with lots of people in it whereas the

734
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:25,460
grand conspiracist would say that

735
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:26,930
there's a bunch of guys in a room

736
00:26:31,090 --> 00:26:29,210
somewhere making decisions

737
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:31,100
about the these bad things that are

738
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:33,289
going to happen chronic experience is

739
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:34,970
another thing I would say is the fact

740
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:37,490
that again the examples I give my video

741
00:26:42,039 --> 00:26:39,110
would be the likes of the climate change

742
00:26:44,139 --> 00:26:42,049
or suppressed cancer cures another

743
00:26:46,389 --> 00:26:44,149
aspect would be the fact that in

744
00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:46,399
comparison to much smaller conspiracies

745
00:26:50,409 --> 00:26:48,470
such as the water gets your your having

746
00:26:51,850 --> 00:26:50,419
the granted tens of thousands of people

747
00:26:55,810 --> 00:26:51,860
are involved and keeping the conspiracy

748
00:26:58,120 --> 00:26:55,820
hidden and I think just any you're

749
00:27:00,460 --> 00:26:58,130
almost giving the human beings too much

750
00:27:01,539 --> 00:27:00,470
credit mine is if you think that tens of

751
00:27:03,070 --> 00:27:01,549
thousands of people can keep something

752
00:27:04,690 --> 00:27:03,080
like that hidden and again it's coming

753
00:27:06,850 --> 00:27:04,700
from the CM government who can't keep

754
00:27:10,450 --> 00:27:06,860
the Monica Lewinsky thing secret between

755
00:27:12,490 --> 00:27:10,460
two people in the Oval Office and so

756
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:12,500
yeah it's really just a shame a bit tens

757
00:27:16,299 --> 00:27:13,850
of thousands of people are keeping

758
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:16,309
something hidden do you think there are

759
00:27:20,919 --> 00:27:19,190
actually our all conspiracies

760
00:27:22,570 --> 00:27:20,929
essentially grand conspiracies or other

761
00:27:24,310 --> 00:27:22,580
conspiracies that fall outside that

762
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:24,320
realm of grand conspiracy because it

763
00:27:28,389 --> 00:27:25,970
seems like all these conspiracies that

764
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:28,399
people talk about they require a lot of

765
00:27:33,940 --> 00:27:31,039
people the other ones that couldn't be

766
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:33,950
smaller that don't require a bunch of

767
00:27:39,549 --> 00:27:37,370
guys in a smoky room and well I mean I

768
00:27:42,190 --> 00:27:39,559
example I'm actually given in my latest

769
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:42,200
video would be and have you heard of the

770
00:27:47,470 --> 00:27:45,110
Tuskegee Experiment mm-hmm yeah so I

771
00:27:49,180 --> 00:27:47,480
mean I'm just there are conspiracies

772
00:27:51,549 --> 00:27:49,190
obviously that they exist but it's again

773
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:51,559
it's it's trying to find historical

774
00:27:54,820 --> 00:27:53,330
examples the the example I would give

775
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:54,830
would be a sketchy experiment which is

776
00:27:59,680 --> 00:27:57,049
basically where and for those who may

777
00:28:04,480 --> 00:27:59,690
not be aware is essentially at back

778
00:28:06,669 --> 00:28:04,490
between 1932 and 1972 the US Public

779
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:06,679
Health Service essentially they they

780
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:08,330
wanted to track the progression of

781
00:28:12,850 --> 00:28:10,250
untreated syphilis but what they

782
00:28:14,590 --> 00:28:12,860
actually did was they got African

783
00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:14,600
Americans who weren't fully aware of

784
00:28:17,289 --> 00:28:16,070
what they were being studied for that

785
00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:17,299
they Russia under the impression that

786
00:28:22,419 --> 00:28:20,390
they were receiving free health care but

787
00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:22,429
what was actually happening for the

788
00:28:27,639 --> 00:28:24,169
space of 40 years or whatever was they

789
00:28:29,769 --> 00:28:27,649
were actually just getting blood taken

790
00:28:32,049 --> 00:28:29,779
to look at the progression of syphilis

791
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:32,059
but they actually weren't told they had

792
00:28:36,010 --> 00:28:33,679
syphilis and whenever they were

793
00:28:38,110 --> 00:28:36,020
basically dying or you know whatever

794
00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:38,120
their health was deteriorating and they

795
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:39,710
they didn't give them any effective

796
00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:41,330
treatment to solve the problem

797
00:28:45,370 --> 00:28:42,020
essentially

798
00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:45,380
they just let them die but again if you

799
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:47,809
compare that to say the idea that

800
00:28:53,020 --> 00:28:50,570
vaccines cause autism it's one thing I

801
00:28:55,180 --> 00:28:53,030
think 2.0 a single study or a single

802
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:55,190
organization that is acted in a

803
00:29:00,370 --> 00:28:57,290
conspiratorial manner but in lights of

804
00:29:02,530 --> 00:29:00,380
the vaccine cause autism or the idea

805
00:29:04,419 --> 00:29:02,540
that cancer cures are being suppressed

806
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,429
by Big Pharma you're then having the

807
00:29:08,140 --> 00:29:06,320
ground that pretty much every

808
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:08,150
organization around the pilot has

809
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:09,770
involved in the conspiracy and three

810
00:29:13,299 --> 00:29:10,880
that's where it starts to become a drama

811
00:29:15,430 --> 00:29:13,309
conspiracy as opposed to you know a real

812
00:29:17,020 --> 00:29:15,440
conspiracy I suppose yeah yeah it's

813
00:29:18,419 --> 00:29:17,030
something I see a lot with conspiracy

814
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:18,429
theorists is they kind of have a

815
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:20,720
trajectory where things kind of cascade

816
00:29:23,860 --> 00:29:22,730
you know they start believing one thing

817
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:23,870
then they believe another and believe

818
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:25,250
another but eventually they reach some

819
00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:26,690
kind of point that they don't they don't

820
00:29:30,610 --> 00:29:29,000
go belong like be it like chemtrails or

821
00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:30,620
flutter Thor something like that but

822
00:29:36,190 --> 00:29:32,600
yeah if someone starts out believing

823
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:36,200
that JFK was associated by the CIA

824
00:29:40,419 --> 00:29:38,000
depending on how complete they get into

825
00:29:43,780 --> 00:29:40,429
that then it's a fairly small step to

826
00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:43,790
some of the more straightforward 9/11

827
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:45,380
conspiracy theorists like the CIA

828
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:47,600
arranged for the the hijackings or

829
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,330
things like that yeah so do you have

830
00:29:58,750 --> 00:29:55,600
friends now who are conspiracy theorists

831
00:30:01,299 --> 00:29:58,760
sort of I have a friend yeah she lived

832
00:30:02,830 --> 00:30:01,309
in New Zealand I buy he's in the

833
00:30:04,570 --> 00:30:02,840
conspiracies but I think he's sort of

834
00:30:06,250 --> 00:30:04,580
ironically and the conspiracy theories

835
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:06,260
because he always like jokes with the

836
00:30:11,260 --> 00:30:09,050
reptiles but I don't 100% think he's

837
00:30:12,850 --> 00:30:11,270
being serious birth bodies is it I think

838
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:12,860
you just said you think that's funny but

839
00:30:18,490 --> 00:30:16,130
I mean obviously I mean I do know people

840
00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:18,500
who do believe like the climate change

841
00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:20,840
is a hoax like I have people in my

842
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:22,220
family who think climate change is a

843
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:24,650
hoax for example so I do know people who

844
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:27,530
believe general conspiracies but they're

845
00:30:32,530 --> 00:30:31,010
maybe not necessarily that far gone with

846
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:32,540
like new world order conspiracy they

847
00:30:35,580 --> 00:30:33,410
would they would maybe believe the

848
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:35,590
climate change was a hoax or that maybe

849
00:30:38,169 --> 00:30:37,760
vaccines cause autism and things of that

850
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:38,179
nature

851
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:40,250
but I don't think they necessarily BS

852
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:42,410
their entire worldview run it

853
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:44,000
necessarily it's it to something they

854
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:44,960
believe but they're not necessarily

855
00:30:49,330 --> 00:30:47,270
fully committed to the cause of that

856
00:30:50,770 --> 00:30:49,340
make sense yeah it's interesting like

857
00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:50,780
you know you've seen my conspiracy

858
00:30:55,489 --> 00:30:53,580
spectrum graph where I put

859
00:30:57,649 --> 00:30:55,499
more extreme things like reptiles or

860
00:31:00,229 --> 00:30:57,659
like a 9 out of 10 and Flat Earth is

861
00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:00,239
nine and then you've got down the bottom

862
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:03,480
things like climate change is is a is a

863
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:05,970
conspiracy to cover-up of something or

864
00:31:09,499 --> 00:31:08,850
other or vaccines vaccines being

865
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:09,509
dangerous

866
00:31:13,940 --> 00:31:12,330
instead of safe and you know this is

867
00:31:16,369 --> 00:31:13,950
spectrum but you know you're talking

868
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:16,379
about that then you mentioned vaccines

869
00:31:19,820 --> 00:31:18,690
and you mentioned global warming it's

870
00:31:22,609 --> 00:31:19,830
almost in a way like there's kind of a

871
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:22,619
dividing line between these almost kind

872
00:31:28,369 --> 00:31:25,850
of politically based conspiracies and

873
00:31:30,109 --> 00:31:28,379
you know the different things that are

874
00:31:32,419 --> 00:31:30,119
kind of more almost like ridiculous

875
00:31:34,369 --> 00:31:32,429
there is like okay it's not it's not

876
00:31:37,249 --> 00:31:34,379
just like a simple spectrum there are

877
00:31:38,869 --> 00:31:37,259
these things like like like the global

878
00:31:41,869 --> 00:31:38,879
warming thing which is very very

879
00:31:43,489 --> 00:31:41,879
mainstream yet this you know you think

880
00:31:46,340 --> 00:31:43,499
this is kind of like a barrier

881
00:31:49,789 --> 00:31:46,350
preventing people crossing over from one

882
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:49,799
side to another there I mean I would

883
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:52,049
personally argue and again you probably

884
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:53,609
watched my video on the topic that there

885
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:56,159
was actually a study done by Cambridge

886
00:31:59,299 --> 00:31:57,840
University and it's actually the largest

887
00:32:01,279 --> 00:31:59,309
study that's ever been done in the

888
00:32:04,729 --> 00:32:01,289
conspiracism and you didn't tend to

889
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,739
generally find beliefs and conspiracy

890
00:32:09,739 --> 00:32:07,200
theories are more or less correlated

891
00:32:11,749 --> 00:32:09,749
with for example supporting Trump on

892
00:32:13,129 --> 00:32:11,759
supporting brexit and I think to think

893
00:32:15,259 --> 00:32:13,139
what the reason why I would think that

894
00:32:17,739 --> 00:32:15,269
is and again I was actually I'm actually

895
00:32:19,970 --> 00:32:17,749
researching a video at the moment and

896
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:19,980
I'm doing a part about Flat Earth

897
00:32:23,539 --> 00:32:21,809
conspiracy theories and again I've

898
00:32:26,139 --> 00:32:23,549
watched a couple of interviews where a

899
00:32:28,909 --> 00:32:26,149
lot of flat earthers are very much like

900
00:32:31,249 --> 00:32:28,919
you know good on chunk for calling out

901
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:31,259
the fake movies so they're the I would

902
00:32:35,539 --> 00:32:33,450
argue that again in in terms of trying

903
00:32:37,159 --> 00:32:35,549
to explain power relations if you do

904
00:32:38,539 --> 00:32:37,169
start to get into conspiracy if there is

905
00:32:41,629 --> 00:32:38,549
eventually you're gonna start to come

906
00:32:42,919 --> 00:32:41,639
down this route of you know how Jews

907
00:32:45,229 --> 00:32:42,929
around the world and things of that

908
00:32:47,629 --> 00:32:45,239
nature or I George Soros from the world

909
00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:47,639
out of thinking key and that would tend

910
00:32:53,330 --> 00:32:49,529
to be more to the right rather than the

911
00:32:55,009 --> 00:32:53,340
left wing of society and sorry I it's

912
00:32:56,599 --> 00:32:55,019
hard a really talent I do definite thing

913
00:32:59,119 --> 00:32:56,609
as a connection between conspiracies and

914
00:33:02,869 --> 00:32:59,129
far-right extremists if that would be my

915
00:33:03,799 --> 00:33:02,879
take off yeah not to say that people on

916
00:33:05,810 --> 00:33:03,809
the Left can obviously believe

917
00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:05,820
conspiracies as well but again as I

918
00:33:09,740 --> 00:33:07,260
mentioned my video is it's very

919
00:33:11,270 --> 00:33:09,750
once you really understand the context

920
00:33:13,790 --> 00:33:11,280
and the fact that a lot of these do come

921
00:33:16,220 --> 00:33:13,800
from like fascist propaganda it's very

922
00:33:18,020 --> 00:33:16,230
difficult to decouple conspiracy

923
00:33:20,390 --> 00:33:18,030
theories from the fact that they tend to

924
00:33:22,390 --> 00:33:20,400
be generally spread by extremists you

925
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:22,400
know sort of far-right extremist groups

926
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:25,530
especially with even like religious

927
00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:28,050
fundamentalism like you tend to find

928
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:29,700
conspiracies about New World Order for

929
00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:32,130
example are both Christian

930
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:34,110
fundamentalism on as well as I Islamic

931
00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:36,930
fundamentalism as well so the dog just

932
00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:38,340
generally seems to be a connection

933
00:33:42,860 --> 00:33:40,380
between conspiracies on that world true

934
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:42,870
for whatever reason yeah the vaccine

935
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:45,090
thing there is I think in some ways like

936
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:47,910
very prevalent amongst uh you know left

937
00:33:53,330 --> 00:33:50,370
wings people which is interesting

938
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:53,340
Germans yeah GMOs it's and that's kind

939
00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:56,130
of like yeah a health health type thing

940
00:34:01,690 --> 00:34:00,000
yeah is more prevalent amongst left-wing

941
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:01,700
type people which is an interesting

942
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:04,310
interesting thing like people who are

943
00:34:13,820 --> 00:34:06,510
left-wing I guess they're concerned with

944
00:34:15,409 --> 00:34:13,830
the well-being of people and survey of

945
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:15,419
the natural it's almost like because

946
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:18,720
vaccines and GMOs aren't quote-unquote

947
00:34:23,060 --> 00:34:21,330
natural because you tend to find people

948
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:23,070
on the left especially the more kind of

949
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:26,010
heavy sort of new-agey types they tend

950
00:34:30,020 --> 00:34:28,050
to be very much about you know nature's

951
00:34:31,430 --> 00:34:30,030
you know brilliant and anything that

952
00:34:32,450 --> 00:34:31,440
goes against nature is bad I thought

953
00:34:35,090 --> 00:34:32,460
maybe you know that they basically use

954
00:34:36,619 --> 00:34:35,100
the naturalistic policy yeah I was

955
00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:36,629
wondering though if you can go from like

956
00:34:40,369 --> 00:34:38,460
believing that vaccines are bad for you

957
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:40,379
and believing that GMOs are bad for you

958
00:34:44,060 --> 00:34:42,330
does that then lead to like your the

959
00:34:45,350 --> 00:34:44,070
Jews are controlling the world or is

960
00:34:50,750 --> 00:34:45,360
that like a completely separate type of

961
00:34:52,820 --> 00:34:50,760
thing I don't like everybody at once

962
00:34:54,830 --> 00:34:52,830
because again people like I said in my

963
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:54,840
previous video some people can't be into

964
00:34:59,810 --> 00:34:56,850
GMO conspiracies that again beyond the

965
00:35:01,160 --> 00:34:59,820
left but I just tend to find again the

966
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:01,170
thing I always meant I mentioned in my

967
00:35:05,570 --> 00:35:03,510
video is I I came across a comment from

968
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:05,580
someone it was part of the extinction

969
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:06,930
rebellion who was obviously it was

970
00:35:10,730 --> 00:35:08,400
extinction rebellion is obviously other

971
00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:10,740
kind of a left-wing climate change group

972
00:35:15,110 --> 00:35:12,900
but because of a because of their belief

973
00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:15,120
that GMOs are bobbed they for whatever

974
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:17,400
reason started getting into agenda21

975
00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:20,650
conspiracies which are actually kind of

976
00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:22,529
global warming conspiracy theories just

977
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:24,609
about a boy hi global warming is a hoax

978
00:35:28,980 --> 00:35:26,410
to install can have a one-world

979
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:28,990
dictatorial government so again that's

980
00:35:33,210 --> 00:35:30,720
why it's not so much that conspiracies

981
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:33,220
inherently lead to left-wing thinking

982
00:35:36,450 --> 00:35:34,690
but I just think there is there seems to

983
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:36,460
be a connection whatever you start

984
00:35:39,390 --> 00:35:37,569
because whenever you start to go down

985
00:35:41,630 --> 00:35:39,400
because the ground conspiratorial great

986
00:35:44,849 --> 00:35:41,640
and evitable you're gonna come into this

987
00:35:47,010 --> 00:35:44,859
this world via but the Jews and you know

988
00:35:51,870 --> 00:35:47,020
the George Soros and things about nature

989
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:51,880
me you've been doing you did this three

990
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:53,890
videos you get a bunch more like in the

991
00:35:58,019 --> 00:35:56,710
pipeline what's your what's your goal

992
00:36:00,480 --> 00:35:58,029
with these videos what are you actually

993
00:36:04,829 --> 00:36:00,490
trying to watch the reason behind your

994
00:36:06,799 --> 00:36:04,839
personal motivation for doing this as a

995
00:36:10,170 --> 00:36:06,809
form of catharsis because obviously

996
00:36:12,539 --> 00:36:10,180
being from North Ireland it's the

997
00:36:14,130 --> 00:36:12,549
political conversation and just general

998
00:36:15,930 --> 00:36:14,140
critical thoughts used to be kind of

999
00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:15,940
lacking so I just decided to be a voice

1000
00:36:20,339 --> 00:36:18,520
of skepticism within Northern Ireland

1001
00:36:23,089 --> 00:36:20,349
essentially is there because of the

1002
00:36:26,549 --> 00:36:23,099
polarization between you know the

1003
00:36:28,589 --> 00:36:26,559
loyalists and they yeah yeah yeah yeah

1004
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:28,599
and again it goes back to my first video

1005
00:36:32,430 --> 00:36:30,730
is obviously very much about the

1006
00:36:34,349 --> 00:36:32,440
connection between conspiracies and

1007
00:36:36,269 --> 00:36:34,359
brexit and obviously there are other

1008
00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:36,279
reasons why people choose to lead the EU

1009
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:37,990
that weren't necessarily about

1010
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:40,690
conspiracy theories but again a lot of

1011
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:42,250
people I talk to there don't seem to be

1012
00:36:48,140 --> 00:36:45,910
this kind of hardly be EU is very you

1013
00:36:50,549 --> 00:36:48,150
know the EU is part of this technocratic

1014
00:36:52,740 --> 00:36:50,559
system to control us all and all this

1015
00:36:54,420 --> 00:36:52,750
kind of stuff so I just decided to make

1016
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:54,430
those videos to the form of catharsis

1017
00:36:59,099 --> 00:36:57,490
and that again seen that study inspired

1018
00:37:00,390 --> 00:36:59,109
me to make my first video which is all

1019
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:00,400
the same points the connection between

1020
00:37:05,490 --> 00:37:02,170
conspiracies and modern-day politics

1021
00:37:08,059 --> 00:37:05,500
yeah do you do you think what you're

1022
00:37:11,609 --> 00:37:08,069
doing will make a difference to people

1023
00:37:14,130 --> 00:37:11,619
um I think my video series because uh

1024
00:37:17,789 --> 00:37:14,140
again a lot of the video series I see

1025
00:37:20,789 --> 00:37:17,799
Boyd D converting 9/11 seems to be again

1026
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:20,799
more or less centric on showing people

1027
00:37:25,109 --> 00:37:22,930
the evidence as to why 9/11 conspiracies

1028
00:37:26,670 --> 00:37:25,119
are wrong whereas obviously as a former

1029
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:26,680
conspiracy theorist who has changed his

1030
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:29,410
mind has gone through the process of D

1031
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:30,770
converting and kind of

1032
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:33,440
those the main points of you know hi hi

1033
00:37:38,530 --> 00:37:35,690
I have come out of conspiracy theories I

1034
00:37:41,890 --> 00:37:38,540
would say that my series I've always

1035
00:37:44,770 --> 00:37:41,900
make in my series the series is gonna be

1036
00:37:46,090 --> 00:37:44,780
probably about a 7 to 6 video series

1037
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:46,100
specifically about conspiracy

1038
00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:46,730
deconversion

1039
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:48,740
and I'm sort of making it that if

1040
00:37:52,330 --> 00:37:50,930
somebody sits the who is a conspiracy

1041
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:52,340
theorist and they walk would they watch

1042
00:37:56,380 --> 00:37:54,650
something in order I feel that at a bare

1043
00:37:59,200 --> 00:37:56,390
minimum it'll give them sort of time to

1044
00:38:01,360 --> 00:37:59,210
reflect on it even does have simple

1045
00:38:03,220 --> 00:38:01,370
concepts such as confirmation bias like

1046
00:38:05,350 --> 00:38:03,230
for me whenever I learnt the concept of

1047
00:38:07,150 --> 00:38:05,360
confirmation bias that actually totally

1048
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:07,160
blew my mind because I had a very sort

1049
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:10,370
of simplistic understanding of media

1050
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:11,690
influence back when I was a conspiracy

1051
00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:13,250
theorist so I would have thought that

1052
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:14,720
you know there's just the mainstream

1053
00:38:18,220 --> 00:38:16,910
media and that's all lies and then

1054
00:38:20,110 --> 00:38:18,230
there's just the alternative media and

1055
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:20,120
that's all the truth and whenever I

1056
00:38:24,610 --> 00:38:21,680
lurked about the concept of confirmation

1057
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:24,620
bias as obvious as it may seem to you

1058
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:26,480
and I know at the time that really blew

1059
00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:29,330
my mind so just even little things like

1060
00:38:33,310 --> 00:38:30,440
that it's getting really people to

1061
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:33,320
reflect on you know why they think what

1062
00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:34,370
they think which is essentially the

1063
00:38:38,740 --> 00:38:36,200
series the point of my video essentially

1064
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:38,750
so yeah yeah I think I think having the

1065
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:40,160
perspective of someone who used to be a

1066
00:38:44,610 --> 00:38:42,410
conspiracy theorist is really valuable I

1067
00:38:47,050 --> 00:38:44,620
know that there's been work done with

1068
00:38:49,540 --> 00:38:47,060
kind of jihadists and other violent

1069
00:38:51,370 --> 00:38:49,550
extremists one of the most effective

1070
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:51,380
ways of getting through to people who

1071
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:55,370
who have that kind of tendency is have

1072
00:38:59,740 --> 00:38:58,130
people who used to be strong believers

1073
00:39:02,560 --> 00:38:59,750
talk to them and the same with cults as

1074
00:39:05,410 --> 00:39:02,570
well with with talking to people who

1075
00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:05,420
used to be in the cult is it's really

1076
00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:06,950
good like they said the best cult

1077
00:39:10,420 --> 00:39:07,790
deprogrammer

1078
00:39:12,090 --> 00:39:10,430
is always someone who who used to be in

1079
00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:12,100
the club because you have to understand

1080
00:39:16,750 --> 00:39:14,630
the mindset of the people in some ways I

1081
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:16,760
don't have that today I mean I was never

1082
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:20,720
a conspiracy theorist yeah so I guess

1083
00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:22,730
another thing you probably rose to make

1084
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:25,460
videos is I try to I try my best to be

1085
00:39:28,540 --> 00:39:27,170
kind of fair minded because again I do

1086
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:28,550
you bring up the fact that there are

1087
00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:29,570
problems in society

1088
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,150
where as a thing a conspiracy theorist

1089
00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:34,640
in general tend to think that people who

1090
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:36,140
are skeptics don't recognize this right

1091
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:38,000
I like to think of my videos I come

1092
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:39,970
about as a with a fair minded approach

1093
00:39:45,010 --> 00:39:43,040
where I try to almost point at the pros

1094
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:45,020
and cons of you know

1095
00:39:48,670 --> 00:39:46,850
society and the fact that there is this

1096
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:48,680
may be valid critiques of society and

1097
00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:49,850
then there's non but what I would

1098
00:39:53,410 --> 00:39:52,100
consider nonviolent critiques of society

1099
00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:53,420
so I figure dude car bought it from a

1100
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:55,310
very fair minded point of view again as

1101
00:39:59,710 --> 00:39:56,240
someone who used to be a conspiracy

1102
00:40:02,470 --> 00:39:59,720
theorist ya know I try to bring up the

1103
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:02,480
real issues that people I think should

1104
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:05,810
be focusing on yeah things like well

1105
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:07,850
like the American foreign policy the

1106
00:40:11,410 --> 00:40:09,170
intervention is per foreign policy

1107
00:40:13,330 --> 00:40:11,420
around the world the corporate

1108
00:40:14,770 --> 00:40:13,340
corruption political corruption things

1109
00:40:17,860 --> 00:40:14,780
like that I think that are very very

1110
00:40:19,930 --> 00:40:17,870
real climate change yeah a climate

1111
00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:19,940
change yeah yeah there it is there's the

1112
00:40:24,580 --> 00:40:22,270
actual issues that are real that's

1113
00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:24,590
getting overlooked because people focus

1114
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:27,920
on on other things do you think like

1115
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:31,040
it's worthwhile debunking like the more

1116
00:40:37,210 --> 00:40:32,720
extreme conspiracy theories like Flat

1117
00:40:39,490 --> 00:40:37,220
Earth I see you know in my in my next

1118
00:40:42,670 --> 00:40:39,500
video like I almost consider Flat Earth

1119
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:42,680
conspiracy to almost be people who have

1120
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:44,510
rent you've reached almost the end the

1121
00:40:47,830 --> 00:40:46,730
kind of top tier of a cult because again

1122
00:40:49,750 --> 00:40:47,840
it comes back to this idea of the

1123
00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:49,760
demarcation problem because the one

1124
00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:51,470
thing that obviously flat earthers all

1125
00:40:55,390 --> 00:40:53,150
have in common is that they were already

1126
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:55,400
to some degree into conspiracy theories

1127
00:41:00,040 --> 00:40:58,160
and so it's almost like the very fact

1128
00:41:02,170 --> 00:41:00,050
that they have bought into this idea of

1129
00:41:04,330 --> 00:41:02,180
mass deception and there's an almost

1130
00:41:07,090 --> 00:41:04,340
weaponized onslaught of propaganda

1131
00:41:09,550 --> 00:41:07,100
whether it be again you go from JFK

1132
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:09,560
conspiracy to the 9/11 conspiracy and

1133
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:11,450
then you go to the moon landing

1134
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:13,070
conspiracy and a thing once you kind of

1135
00:41:16,510 --> 00:41:14,690
reach that point where you've bought

1136
00:41:18,730 --> 00:41:16,520
into that then it's kind of like well

1137
00:41:19,870 --> 00:41:18,740
why couldn't the RSB flats because of

1138
00:41:23,530 --> 00:41:19,880
you know negative manner to lie about

1139
00:41:25,210 --> 00:41:23,540
all this other stuff so it's very I

1140
00:41:27,010 --> 00:41:25,220
don't know where you would go with flat

1141
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:27,020
earthers but I just know that it's it is

1142
00:41:29,730 --> 00:41:28,490
pretty much the endpoint of a cult

1143
00:41:31,930 --> 00:41:29,740
almost as a as a methodical

1144
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:31,940
radicalization process that's no

1145
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:33,530
different from someone who as a

1146
00:41:38,620 --> 00:41:35,810
creationist or someone who's part of a

1147
00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:38,630
cult or political or religious extremist

1148
00:41:42,310 --> 00:41:40,910
group it's where we're all assemblance

1149
00:41:45,010 --> 00:41:42,320
of objective reasoning has just gone

1150
00:41:46,270 --> 00:41:45,020
completely out the window I don't really

1151
00:41:47,860 --> 00:41:46,280
know how we'd solve that problem to be

1152
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:47,870
honest but again

1153
00:41:50,980 --> 00:41:49,370
are we talking earlier about how people

1154
00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:50,990
progress along the spectrum and they

1155
00:41:54,010 --> 00:41:52,430
start with something and they move on

1156
00:41:55,540 --> 00:41:54,020
naturally under something else and then

1157
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:55,550
they kind of stop at some point because

1158
00:41:58,720 --> 00:41:56,720
they think that everything beyond that

1159
00:42:00,670 --> 00:41:58,730
is a bit be ridiculous

1160
00:42:02,340 --> 00:42:00,680
you know something I've seen with people

1161
00:42:05,170 --> 00:42:02,350
who get out of conspiracy theorists

1162
00:42:06,730 --> 00:42:05,180
conspiracy theories is that they move

1163
00:42:09,730 --> 00:42:06,740
along and then they can have actually

1164
00:42:11,830 --> 00:42:09,740
venture a bit beyond their comfort zone

1165
00:42:13,570 --> 00:42:11,840
and they start considering things they

1166
00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:13,580
think oh what if the earth is flat or

1167
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:15,140
you know what if chem shells are real or

1168
00:42:19,590 --> 00:42:17,330
what if like a missile hit the Pentagon

1169
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:19,600
and then they actually look at that and

1170
00:42:23,530 --> 00:42:21,770
discover that to be false and that kind

1171
00:42:27,460 --> 00:42:23,540
of helps unravel everything in the other

1172
00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:27,470
direction yes because again back when I

1173
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:29,390
started getting into conspiracy theories

1174
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:32,210
another thing that I find you know

1175
00:42:36,430 --> 00:42:33,890
people like David Icke and all those

1176
00:42:37,810 --> 00:42:36,440
kind of thinkers I know there's a long

1177
00:42:39,730 --> 00:42:37,820
side the fact that they do get you into

1178
00:42:40,990 --> 00:42:39,740
the conspiracy theory world I think one

1179
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:41,000
of the things they tend to promote a lot

1180
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:43,430
is this idea of consciousness and how I

1181
00:42:47,860 --> 00:42:45,530
all consciousness is subjective anyway

1182
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:47,870
and so as well as well as for this

1183
00:42:51,790 --> 00:42:49,790
radicalization towards conspiracy

1184
00:42:53,530 --> 00:42:51,800
theories they then start to bring out

1185
00:42:55,810 --> 00:42:53,540
this very pseudo way of thinking about

1186
00:42:57,610 --> 00:42:55,820
objective you know what I consider

1187
00:43:00,010 --> 00:42:57,620
objective information it's all about

1188
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:00,020
perception and you know you just got to

1189
00:43:03,820 --> 00:43:02,090
open your mind to different ways of

1190
00:43:05,830 --> 00:43:03,830
thinking because you're you're answering

1191
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:05,840
them you know you're you're coming out

1192
00:43:09,310 --> 00:43:07,280
of the matrix you're taking the red pill

1193
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:09,320
and that's why but it's almost

1194
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:11,330
compounded by that fact that they they

1195
00:43:14,140 --> 00:43:12,800
don't really give you an avenue of hard

1196
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:14,150
to think about information it's very

1197
00:43:18,370 --> 00:43:16,400
much you're just out the opening your

1198
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:18,380
mind up to alternative information and

1199
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:19,970
that makes you more open minded

1200
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:22,970
essentially so it's yeah so I wonder how

1201
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:25,370
like someone who believes that kind of

1202
00:43:31,540 --> 00:43:29,090
philosophy that CIA consciousnesses are

1203
00:43:33,550 --> 00:43:31,550
a construct and that everything is kind

1204
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:33,560
of an illusion like how would someone

1205
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:37,280
who's a David Icke believer not to be a

1206
00:43:44,490 --> 00:43:40,490
flat earth believer yeah you know open

1207
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:46,690
because it's almost like there might be

1208
00:43:52,330 --> 00:43:49,850
like a set of people it's too far gone

1209
00:43:54,070 --> 00:43:52,340
like in that the minds are so open in

1210
00:43:57,250 --> 00:43:54,080
that there's no way of them actually

1211
00:43:58,900 --> 00:43:57,260
believing anything anymore but and yet

1212
00:44:01,450 --> 00:43:58,910
they still do believe they still believe

1213
00:44:03,610 --> 00:44:01,460
these these theory is about I don't know

1214
00:44:05,230 --> 00:44:03,620
the Council on Foreign Relations running

1215
00:44:09,790 --> 00:44:05,240
the world or the Queen being a reptile

1216
00:44:11,620 --> 00:44:09,800
so they actually have beliefs but why

1217
00:44:16,990 --> 00:44:11,630
didn't they doubt those beliefs

1218
00:44:18,310 --> 00:44:17,000
yeah yeah yeah I suppose we should focus

1219
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:18,320
on the people that we can actually reach

1220
00:44:22,450 --> 00:44:20,810
but it's you know it's interesting to

1221
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:22,460
see that there are people who are you

1222
00:44:27,790 --> 00:44:25,310
know in a way haven't gone a bit beyond

1223
00:44:29,230 --> 00:44:27,800
that I think people that you can reach

1224
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,240
them with time and because people do

1225
00:44:32,410 --> 00:44:31,040
change if you think back to when you

1226
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:32,420
were 18 you I think back to when I was

1227
00:44:39,610 --> 00:44:37,610
18 yes I was not the most well formed

1228
00:44:41,950 --> 00:44:39,620
thoughtful person in the world you know

1229
00:44:44,590 --> 00:44:41,960
I would easily like jump from one idea

1230
00:44:46,030 --> 00:44:44,600
to the next and I it would have been

1231
00:44:48,730 --> 00:44:46,040
quite easy to for me to believe things

1232
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:48,740
when I was 18 and you get older I think

1233
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:51,680
your mind either kind of ossifies and

1234
00:45:00,370 --> 00:44:54,530
solidifies a bit or you you learn how to

1235
00:45:03,550 --> 00:45:00,380
think about things a bit more yeah both

1236
00:45:05,050 --> 00:45:03,560
ways because there it tends me I think

1237
00:45:07,150 --> 00:45:05,060
people of an older generation tend to

1238
00:45:09,460 --> 00:45:07,160
patronize people of a younger generation

1239
00:45:11,140 --> 00:45:09,470
I do you see that cuz I think people are

1240
00:45:13,690 --> 00:45:11,150
obviously younger obviously a bit more

1241
00:45:15,730 --> 00:45:13,700
idealistic and you know they maybe are a

1242
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:15,740
bit more far to the left I also think it

1243
00:45:19,150 --> 00:45:17,330
works the other way around as well you

1244
00:45:21,370 --> 00:45:19,160
have people who appear Iran for too long

1245
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:21,380
you know maybe however they maybe have

1246
00:45:26,740 --> 00:45:23,410
their formative years within a certain

1247
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:26,750
time period and then they maybe had kids

1248
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:28,490
and you know went on with their life and

1249
00:45:31,660 --> 00:45:30,170
they've never really sat and tried to

1250
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:31,670
revise any of these things that they

1251
00:45:34,570 --> 00:45:32,810
thought when they were like 20 or 30

1252
00:45:36,100 --> 00:45:34,580
years old so I think it sort of works

1253
00:45:41,410 --> 00:45:36,110
both ways and in my opinion at least in

1254
00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:41,420
anyway you know if you should teach

1255
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:43,190
people epistemology at school I don't

1256
00:45:52,540 --> 00:45:44,330
know what that what would that look like

1257
00:45:54,850 --> 00:45:52,550
how do you go better both well both

1258
00:45:56,380 --> 00:45:54,860
epistemology on metacognition you know

1259
00:45:58,240 --> 00:45:56,390
that the fact that our minds are

1260
00:45:59,950 --> 00:45:58,250
predisposed towards certain ways of

1261
00:46:03,040 --> 00:45:59,960
thinking you know we're predisposed to

1262
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:03,050
see patterns and icky and hyperactive

1263
00:46:08,410 --> 00:46:04,850
agency detection we have a general

1264
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:08,420
tendency to assume that big events must

1265
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:11,090
have a bigger cause so yeah that's

1266
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:13,010
something I would really strongly

1267
00:46:17,230 --> 00:46:14,930
recommend I think like think quite

1268
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:17,240
different Society would be if people

1269
00:46:21,700 --> 00:46:19,130
were taught these concepts of a much

1270
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:21,710
younger age yeah yeah I think you might

1271
00:46:25,150 --> 00:46:22,970
get some pushback to that though because

1272
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:25,160
he might be people might say is he

1273
00:46:27,849 --> 00:46:26,210
putting a particular point of view

1274
00:46:30,339 --> 00:46:27,859
across especially religious people

1275
00:46:33,789 --> 00:46:30,349
because they were seen as an attack on

1276
00:46:37,089 --> 00:46:33,799
religion the the liberally atheist

1277
00:46:39,339 --> 00:46:37,099
agenda yeah I remember a few years ago

1278
00:46:42,270 --> 00:46:39,349
here in America there was a little

1279
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:42,280
brouhaha because one of the local

1280
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:45,410
Republican parties had on there their

1281
00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:47,450
official prospectus mother they call it

1282
00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:49,609
a plank by the thinking I list all their

1283
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:52,640
things that they were against the

1284
00:46:56,890 --> 00:46:55,130
introduction of critical thinking into

1285
00:46:58,720 --> 00:46:56,900
schools and I sure was on the plank but

1286
00:47:00,010 --> 00:46:58,730
they said like put how some kind of

1287
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:00,020
press release or something saying that

1288
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:02,210
they were against critical thinking but

1289
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:03,530
they were responding to something like

1290
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:06,170
some some kind of people on the liberal

1291
00:47:10,890 --> 00:47:07,490
side said they want to introduce

1292
00:47:13,690 --> 00:47:10,900
critical thinking into schools and

1293
00:47:15,309 --> 00:47:13,700
people who were bit more religious took

1294
00:47:16,569 --> 00:47:15,319
this as being oh well they wanted they

1295
00:47:21,250 --> 00:47:16,579
want to teach everybody how to be

1296
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:21,260
atheists which in a way might have been

1297
00:47:30,490 --> 00:47:28,250
the outcome to a degree and essentially

1298
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:30,500
they they had this graph put up where

1299
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:33,490
they they correlated climate change with

1300
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:36,770
professors in university Union like most

1301
00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:38,240
professors and university believe

1302
00:47:42,190 --> 00:47:40,160
climate change and because of that most

1303
00:47:44,319 --> 00:47:42,200
students believe climate change and the

1304
00:47:46,329 --> 00:47:44,329
conclusion they actually came to was the

1305
00:47:48,010 --> 00:47:46,339
fact that you know they were busy saying

1306
00:47:49,779 --> 00:47:48,020
that oh this is proof both like the

1307
00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:49,789
liberal Briand washing agenda you know

1308
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:51,950
that if what if words obviously in my

1309
00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:53,450
experience from going to university it's

1310
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:54,710
good they're truly the complete opposite

1311
00:47:58,180 --> 00:47:56,450
you actually started really don't your

1312
00:48:00,279 --> 00:47:58,190
opinions you know you start to really

1313
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:00,289
think that you want to find wrong with

1314
00:48:07,269 --> 00:48:03,890
this you know yeah as a big problem

1315
00:48:09,730 --> 00:48:07,279
there like the perception of of the

1316
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:09,740
intelligentsia and the academia as being

1317
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:12,079
this this kind of like liberal

1318
00:48:18,430 --> 00:48:15,170
indoctrination machine yeah which you

1319
00:48:20,890 --> 00:48:18,440
know it's mmm sure it happens from time

1320
00:48:22,299 --> 00:48:20,900
to time but it's it's not what they do

1321
00:48:26,980 --> 00:48:22,309
they're teaching you how to think not

1322
00:48:29,799 --> 00:48:26,990
sir but that he you can see you know one

1323
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:29,809
of things I worry about is you know just

1324
00:48:33,609 --> 00:48:32,000
take it to an extreme but perhaps not

1325
00:48:35,019 --> 00:48:33,619
that unrealistically is that the rise of

1326
00:48:36,940 --> 00:48:35,029
fascism the rise of yeah

1327
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:36,950
authoritarianism

1328
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:38,930
and then you would actually get if

1329
00:48:41,980 --> 00:48:40,310
people actually wanting to control

1330
00:48:44,110 --> 00:48:41,990
things like like academics like

1331
00:48:45,820 --> 00:48:44,120
academics are being arrested in in

1332
00:48:48,070 --> 00:48:45,830
various countries around the world like

1333
00:48:49,810 --> 00:48:48,080
me all the time when authoritarian

1334
00:48:52,270 --> 00:48:49,820
regimes come in academic people speak

1335
00:48:53,590 --> 00:48:52,280
out students are often the ones who who

1336
00:48:55,660 --> 00:48:53,600
are protesting against these

1337
00:48:58,060 --> 00:48:55,670
authoritarian people yeah and then you

1338
00:49:00,280 --> 00:48:58,070
get this this clamp down upon free

1339
00:49:01,660 --> 00:49:00,290
thought and and free speech which is the

1340
00:49:04,060 --> 00:49:01,670
very thing that a lot of conspiracy

1341
00:49:07,150 --> 00:49:04,070
theorists actually want the center they

1342
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:07,160
want they actually wants to have freedom

1343
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:08,570
of expression and freedom of thoughts

1344
00:49:12,820 --> 00:49:10,070
and they don't want people telling them

1345
00:49:14,860 --> 00:49:12,830
what to do but if you if you're passing

1346
00:49:18,910 --> 00:49:14,870
around conspiracy theorists theories

1347
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:18,920
about professors indoctrinating people

1348
00:49:21,340 --> 00:49:19,970
and that's just you know based on

1349
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:21,350
nothing then you're gonna have the

1350
00:49:27,430 --> 00:49:24,970
opposite effect yeah absolutely yeah so

1351
00:49:30,670 --> 00:49:27,440
what's what's what's your next video

1352
00:49:33,070 --> 00:49:30,680
gonna be about it's actually actually

1353
00:49:35,140 --> 00:49:33,080
state your your chapter on the demarcate

1354
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:35,150
problem so I actually I use your graph

1355
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:37,310
and the whole part of the video is

1356
00:49:42,550 --> 00:49:40,090
basically to address people who say

1357
00:49:44,170 --> 00:49:42,560
people who say so you're just expecting

1358
00:49:46,570 --> 00:49:44,180
us to believe everything the government

1359
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:46,580
tells us and essentially I go down this

1360
00:49:51,220 --> 00:49:49,250
idea of the demarcate in line so I

1361
00:49:53,020 --> 00:49:51,230
obviously start with the lower-end

1362
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:53,030
conspiracy theories and then I talk

1363
00:49:56,650 --> 00:49:54,710
about the Flat Earth and then I also I

1364
00:49:58,350 --> 00:49:56,660
also bring up your example that you give

1365
00:50:00,970 --> 00:49:58,360
in your book about it be desperately

1366
00:50:02,620 --> 00:50:00,980
different sort of factions of 9/11

1367
00:50:04,540 --> 00:50:02,630
truthers you know you have the letter

1368
00:50:07,090 --> 00:50:04,550
top it on purpose people and then you

1369
00:50:09,940 --> 00:50:07,100
have the laser people or they you know

1370
00:50:13,420 --> 00:50:09,950
the hololens or hologram people and so i

1371
00:50:15,810 --> 00:50:13,430
put across the spectrum and i guess i

1372
00:50:18,070 --> 00:50:15,820
guess the part that I do beatitudes is I

1373
00:50:20,890 --> 00:50:18,080
obviously with the demarcation problem

1374
00:50:22,930 --> 00:50:20,900
you know the Democrats I install popper

1375
00:50:25,150 --> 00:50:22,940
would obviously say that for something

1376
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:25,160
to be considered scientific it has to be

1377
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:26,960
falsifiable and that would be the line

1378
00:50:30,910 --> 00:50:28,910
he draws the line that I personally draw

1379
00:50:33,490 --> 00:50:30,920
is I reference

1380
00:50:34,570 --> 00:50:33,500
I've heard of against maybe someone you

1381
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:34,580
haven't heard of that sadly but I've

1382
00:50:40,540 --> 00:50:37,520
heard of them Kristen Barker flagel know

1383
00:50:41,830 --> 00:50:40,550
yeah I know what I think so they they

1384
00:50:44,620 --> 00:50:41,840
were actually probably the first people

1385
00:50:46,030 --> 00:50:44,630
to they actually wrote a paper on it

1386
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:46,040
where they tried to identify the

1387
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:47,930
commonalities between all ground

1388
00:50:53,390 --> 00:50:49,530
conspiracies and actually

1389
00:50:54,830 --> 00:50:53,400
science denialism so whenever I'm doing

1390
00:50:56,240 --> 00:50:54,840
the dedication problem and this is

1391
00:50:58,220 --> 00:50:56,250
obviously this is across the entire

1392
00:50:59,780 --> 00:50:58,230
spectrum of my videos I'm going to

1393
00:51:02,720 --> 00:50:59,790
address that where I think the demarcate

1394
00:51:04,490 --> 00:51:02,730
line is they're the commonalities that

1395
00:51:07,210 --> 00:51:04,500
they draw that they draw which is

1396
00:51:09,740 --> 00:51:07,220
essentially it's conspiracy theory

1397
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:09,750
referencing Figg experts or you know the

1398
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:12,510
kind of Galileo fallacy and as well as

1399
00:51:16,250 --> 00:51:14,400
that there's also confirmation bias so

1400
00:51:18,350 --> 00:51:16,260
just obviously just looking for research

1401
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:18,360
that only backs up your claims while

1402
00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:20,130
ignoring the wider preponderance of

1403
00:51:24,830 --> 00:51:22,680
evidence and as well as that again

1404
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:24,840
general errors of logic again coming

1405
00:51:28,940 --> 00:51:26,730
back to this idea of Occam's razor you

1406
00:51:30,730 --> 00:51:28,950
know your whatever whatever conspiracy

1407
00:51:33,590 --> 00:51:30,740
theories look for something they they

1408
00:51:35,660 --> 00:51:33,600
pick an anomaly but they don't really

1409
00:51:38,990 --> 00:51:35,670
they obviously for that to work they

1410
00:51:41,630 --> 00:51:39,000
have to then after tea and the the most

1411
00:51:43,220 --> 00:51:41,640
the most ridiculous Theory out there as

1412
00:51:45,620 --> 00:51:43,230
opposed to the simpler explanation and

1413
00:51:48,890 --> 00:51:45,630
as well as that I also I'm gonna put a

1414
00:51:51,230 --> 00:51:48,900
video on moving the goalposts the fact

1415
00:51:52,910 --> 00:51:51,240
that whenever you were FIFA clean they

1416
00:51:54,620 --> 00:51:52,920
tend to then change the question

1417
00:51:55,850 --> 00:51:54,630
essentially you know for example mm-hmm

1418
00:51:57,470 --> 00:51:55,860
and obviously an obvious example would

1419
00:51:59,480 --> 00:51:57,480
be with 911 whenever they say the

1420
00:52:00,800 --> 00:51:59,490
building's felled freefall speed you

1421
00:52:03,350 --> 00:52:00,810
show them that they didn't fall freeze

1422
00:52:07,660 --> 00:52:03,360
full-speed and then they go well it just

1423
00:52:09,950 --> 00:52:07,670
it just collapsed very fast change the

1424
00:52:12,110 --> 00:52:09,960
musical pose so to speak but that's

1425
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:12,120
essentially whenever they identified

1426
00:52:15,740 --> 00:52:13,530
ground conspiracism and science

1427
00:52:17,170 --> 00:52:15,750
denialism that is par they generally

1428
00:52:19,580 --> 00:52:17,180
identifies that would be what I'm

1429
00:52:21,710 --> 00:52:19,590
proposing as the solution to the

1430
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:21,720
deprecation problem or at least by my

1431
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:23,160
interpretation of what it should be

1432
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:28,260
mmhmm yeah so you trying to set up you

1433
00:52:32,990 --> 00:52:29,970
know I guess one thing they they do is a

1434
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:33,000
was it like a baloney detection kit yeah

1435
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:35,130
yeah which is something from I believe

1436
00:52:41,660 --> 00:52:38,250
called Carl Sagan's book yeah can candle

1437
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:41,670
in the dark the demon haunted world

1438
00:52:45,410 --> 00:52:43,650
science as a candle in the dark by Carl

1439
00:52:46,820 --> 00:52:45,420
Sagan is this baloney detection kit

1440
00:52:48,110 --> 00:52:46,830
which is just kind of a series of

1441
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:48,120
questions you can ask about whether

1442
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:50,490
something is is baloney

1443
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:55,440
or not yes separate video on that

1444
00:52:59,210 --> 00:52:56,330
specifically

1445
00:53:00,520 --> 00:52:59,220
whereas this as merely be a more that's

1446
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:00,530
to see in concept but only it's

1447
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:03,170
referencing at Chris and Mark Nichols

1448
00:53:07,450 --> 00:53:05,210
work where they actually have a website

1449
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:07,460
called the nihilism blog and again a

1450
00:53:11,050 --> 00:53:09,680
rapport the first good of that oh yeah

1451
00:53:12,730 --> 00:53:11,060
yes so they were the first to basically

1452
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:12,740
reference these five commonalities that

1453
00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:15,110
are prolific throughout science

1454
00:53:18,850 --> 00:53:16,910
denialism and I think a very similar

1455
00:53:21,690 --> 00:53:18,860
thing can actually applied to conspiracy

1456
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:21,700
theories as well yeah fascinating stuff

1457
00:53:29,350 --> 00:53:25,280
so yeah you you call yourself the

1458
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:29,360
skeptic of the North he said is that

1459
00:53:36,190 --> 00:53:34,970
Game of Thrones reference my

1460
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:36,200
girlfriend's actually really in the game

1461
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:39,290
of Thrones and yeah I heard

1462
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:40,970
obviously the king of the north and

1463
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:43,040
whenever I was actually here you go

1464
00:53:44,830 --> 00:53:44,330
wrong though it's actually the king in

1465
00:53:47,020 --> 00:53:44,840
the north

1466
00:53:48,790 --> 00:53:47,030
so you should be the the skeptic in the

1467
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:48,800
north if you wanted to be a true true

1468
00:53:59,350 --> 00:53:56,240
Game of Thrones fan I I think I was a

1469
00:54:01,330 --> 00:53:59,360
cycling I was cycling by I keep my

1470
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:01,340
Thrones have like a museum here and then

1471
00:54:05,410 --> 00:54:03,770
I thought yes get the north good idea

1472
00:54:06,730 --> 00:54:05,420
and obviously obviously it's the fact

1473
00:54:08,170 --> 00:54:06,740
that I actually live in North Maryland

1474
00:54:16,180 --> 00:54:08,180
as well so I thought that was kind of

1475
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:16,190
good name yeah yeah yeah so skeptic here

1476
00:54:20,350 --> 00:54:18,650
is are you part of the skeptic community

1477
00:54:22,590 --> 00:54:20,360
do you get a skeptic conferences or

1478
00:54:25,930 --> 00:54:22,600
skeptic hangouts or anything like that

1479
00:54:28,690 --> 00:54:25,940
well there's not really much of a

1480
00:54:30,430 --> 00:54:28,700
skeptic there probably is people who are

1481
00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:30,440
into skepticism in Northern Ireland but

1482
00:54:36,250 --> 00:54:32,510
if they are I don't particularly know

1483
00:54:39,190 --> 00:54:36,260
about them so yeah I was interested in

1484
00:54:41,110 --> 00:54:39,200
just thinking about like how how you can

1485
00:54:44,020 --> 00:54:41,120
spread this type of thing yeah you know

1486
00:54:45,580 --> 00:54:44,030
I saw your video mentioned on on Twitter

1487
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:45,590
because you tweeted to me because you

1488
00:54:49,690 --> 00:54:47,200
said you referenced me in the next one

1489
00:54:52,060 --> 00:54:49,700
and I did a little search of Facebook

1490
00:54:55,090 --> 00:54:52,070
and I saw that the ex conspiracy

1491
00:55:02,130 --> 00:54:55,100
theorist who has a group on Facebook he

1492
00:55:04,180 --> 00:55:02,140
he posted a link to your page all right

1493
00:55:05,590 --> 00:55:04,190
that's great and I think more people

1494
00:55:07,540 --> 00:55:05,600
should watch your videos because there

1495
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:07,550
they are they are very good concise and

1496
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:10,370
they're good information and I think you

1497
00:55:13,570 --> 00:55:12,170
know he said there's not much of a

1498
00:55:16,690 --> 00:55:13,580
skeptic community in Northern Iowa

1499
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:16,700
yeah hopefully this is the ball ruling

1500
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:19,040
you know yeah yeah I know this this

1501
00:55:24,670 --> 00:55:21,170
certainly is in the UK there's like the

1502
00:55:27,190 --> 00:55:24,680
Mosley site skeptics people QED things

1503
00:55:29,770 --> 00:55:27,200
like that over there I'm just thinking

1504
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:29,780
like you know this is important stuff

1505
00:55:34,540 --> 00:55:32,090
and I think like getting things like

1506
00:55:36,790 --> 00:55:34,550
this out there sorting in a way be a bit

1507
00:55:38,590 --> 00:55:36,800
more bit more organized and we should be

1508
00:55:41,980 --> 00:55:38,600
like sharing each other's videos and

1509
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:41,990
trying to promote things like this yeah

1510
00:55:47,230 --> 00:55:44,810
well actually I shared my video in the I

1511
00:55:49,090 --> 00:55:47,240
might need to know you actually mention

1512
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:49,100
that I might need to join if Merseyside

1513
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:50,720
skeptics have a group I'll probably join

1514
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:53,090
up I did share in the the Edinburgh

1515
00:55:58,630 --> 00:55:56,960
skeptics group mostly so as with

1516
00:56:03,490 --> 00:55:58,640
everything Northern Ireland is sort of

1517
00:56:08,260 --> 00:56:03,500
behind the yeah well you're a bit out of

1518
00:56:10,420 --> 00:56:08,270
the way for the rest of the UK yeah

1519
00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:10,430
alright well that's it very very

1520
00:56:13,690 --> 00:56:12,110
interesting and I'm really looking

1521
00:56:15,540 --> 00:56:13,700
forward to the next video so it's gonna

1522
00:56:19,300 --> 00:56:15,550
be a series of like six or seven of them

1523
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,310
yeah I'm also making a separate video

1524
00:56:23,830 --> 00:56:21,920
about metacognition after that and then

1525
00:56:26,230 --> 00:56:23,840
after that I may go on to a different

1526
00:56:27,970 --> 00:56:26,240
man I'm doing a general series on

1527
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:27,980
conspiracy theories and then I may go on

1528
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:29,450
to something else after that let's just

1529
00:56:34,510 --> 00:56:32,480
yeah I just yeah do you think you might

1530
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:34,520
do a lot besides besides videos like

1531
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:36,290
write a book or write articles or

1532
00:56:41,140 --> 00:56:38,810
anything like that well I suppose in a

1533
00:56:42,430 --> 00:56:41,150
way I suppose don't we're kind of I'm

1534
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:42,440
writing a book cause it I have

1535
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:43,730
everything I've written on mom sort of

1536
00:56:47,470 --> 00:56:45,770
save and obviously so maybe one day I

1537
00:56:49,330 --> 00:56:47,480
might sort of put it all together and we

1538
00:56:52,210 --> 00:56:49,340
don't this sceptics down in the universe

1539
00:56:53,980 --> 00:56:52,220
but for example I think from just doing

1540
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:53,990
a general search it seems to be almost a

1541
00:56:57,580 --> 00:56:56,450
compilation of blog posts so maybe

1542
00:56:59,770 --> 00:56:57,590
eventually I might turn into something

1543
00:57:01,690 --> 00:56:59,780
like but yeah so in a way yes I I'm

1544
00:57:04,180 --> 00:57:01,700
writing at their calmest but I'll just

1545
00:57:05,470 --> 00:57:04,190
have to look at it maybe ten years down

1546
00:57:07,930 --> 00:57:05,480
the line and trying to turn it turn it

1547
00:57:10,660 --> 00:57:07,940
into something yeah yeah yeah well I'm

1548
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:10,670
gonna write another book to follow up my

1549
00:57:13,420 --> 00:57:12,050
other one and this is this type of type

1550
00:57:15,550 --> 00:57:13,430
of subject matter that I'm gonna cover

1551
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:15,560
because I think the whole the idea of

1552
00:57:18,730 --> 00:57:17,330
focusing on epistemology and how you

1553
00:57:20,230 --> 00:57:18,740
actually have these conversations is

1554
00:57:21,970 --> 00:57:20,240
very important like the conversation I

1555
00:57:24,370 --> 00:57:21,980
have with conspiracy theorists and how

1556
00:57:25,870 --> 00:57:24,380
you actually manage to change their mind

1557
00:57:26,620 --> 00:57:25,880
what are other things that change their

1558
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,630
minds yeah

1559
00:57:30,609 --> 00:57:28,400
do how much two facts health and how

1560
00:57:32,579 --> 00:57:30,619
much does this yeah like Socratic

1561
00:57:36,759 --> 00:57:32,589
dialogue help an epistemological

1562
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:36,769
examining of themselves it's fascinating

1563
00:57:42,330 --> 00:57:40,880
stuff all right well thank you very much